IP Delivery - Tampa to NJ... Route advice?

Hi All -- I've been lurking and searching, "hoovering" data on delivering a newly-built IP 439 from Tampa to NJ in June 2023 (God willing!). 

Nothing is set in stone, but I'll likely have a delivery captain along as far as Miami and then make the rest of the trip north w/ my wife and boys (reasonably able crew). 

I'd be grateful for any first-hand experience and advice for making this trip.  I'm using precious paid-time-off (PTO) from work to do it, so balancing speed with safety is important. I'm no stranger to the notion of "every plan is great until first contact with the enemy" (I know from personal experience how punishing the gulf stream can be) so suggestions for "Plan B's" along the way are a big help too. 

I'll have four weeks... 28 week days... several of which will be burned up with provisioning, final commissioning, and local shakedown cruising.  And I'm hoping not to use it all (I'd like to sail more than just weekends once at home!). 

So?  Any thoughts? 

Thanks! 

John (and Barb) O.

Keep a sharp eye on the weather, you will be traveling during what is technically hurricane season. Check with your insurance policy regarding your allowed location in June. Get the latest ICW guide. There are some Skipper Bob publications that are very helpful to find anchorages and marinas along the ICW. And, when in the ICW, be sure to check the latest on the Waterway Watch website. There has been quite a bit of reported shoaling. I have always made my plans along that route to have 3 potential stopping points as I go so if weather changes or if I get further than expected I have my options already mapped out. I would avoid Port St. Lucie as an entry/exit point to the Atlantic from the ICW, the fishing boats there have no respect for sailors. If you stay relatively close to shore along FL, I generally just stay about a mile or so off shore there along the depth dropoff, you won't need to worry about the Gulf Stream, you will be west of it. But, watch the current tables for entering and exiting, some areas have quite strong currents. There are lots of marinas along the way on the ICW if you need assistance. Definitely join SeaTow or TowBoat US. I'm sure others will jump in with additional details.

Congratulations on the new 439, John! I’m the worst qualified to offer any advice but I did a similar trip in a Cabo Rico we purchased in FL some years ago. We also had a finite amount of time but had hoped to get at least as far as the Hudson en route to the Great Lakes but ran out of time. We went outside the entire way but I stubbornly stuck to sail alone when we could and should have motored much more for reasons of expediency. We ran out of time at the Chesapeake and the ol’ girl ignominiously finished the trip on a truck! If I learned anything, it was that I was foolishly optimistic to expect to stick to a schedule on a trip like that.

Coincidentally, we’re also hoping to take delivery of a new 439 close to the same time next year. I hope you’ll share how it all goes!

Bill W

P.S. I’ve been lurking here too and didn’t see any location dedicated to introductions so I’ll say “Hello” here and thanks to all for all of the IP information!

Durangutan post=7244 wrote:  . . . . but I stubbornly stuck to sail alone when we could and should have motored much more for reasons of expediency.
 

It's taken me a long, long time, but over the past couple of years I have finally realized that I don't have to always try to sail.  I was having this discussion with the Admiral this evening.  I have too often chosen to keep the iron genny off when it would have been far better to accept that it doesn't make me a bad sailor to use it.

I think it comes down to that there's always the option of relying on the motor, and I want to be wary of too readily resorting to it.  Use it when it's the correct/wise choice--it may even make the sailing better (and safer).   There are many days that if we didn't have a prop, we wouldn't be able to get out of the river to enjoy the bay.  It would be a shame to miss those days just because I want to be a sailing purist.

zenGator post=7245 wrote:

Durangutan post=7244 wrote:  . . . . but I stubbornly stuck to sail alone when we could and should have motored much more for reasons of expediency.

 

It's taken me a long, long time, but over the past couple of years I have finally realized that I don't have to always try to sail.  I was having this discussion with the Admiral this evening.  I have too often chosen to keep the iron genny off when it would have been far better to accept that it doesn't make me a bad sailor to use it.

I think it comes down to that there's always the option of relying on the motor, and I want to be wary of too readily resorting to it.  Use it when it's the correct/wise choice--it may even make the sailing better (and safer).   There are many days that if we didn't have a prop, we wouldn't be able to get out of the river to enjoy the bay.  It would be a shame to miss those days just because I want to be a sailing purist.

Yeah, I’ve come to the same realization. Especially since we generally have poor luck with winds and are usually trying to get somewhere before the bars close! ;-D So often are we motor sailing anymore that I kid my wife that we are going to wear out an engine “sailing”.

Off topic, is that your 349 in your avatar? If so, any regrets having gone with the cutter rig? We’ve opted for the cutter rig but we were definitely not encouraged to do so.

Congratulations right back at you! What hull number is your 439? Mine's 17.

And thanks for the insight on the trip. I'm assuming 5/6 kts average for 2 weeks sailing, and budgeting just about 3-1/2. Fingers crossed!

John

Hi DuranGutan -

Interested in your point of view on the cutter v. solent rig on the 439. I'm a cutter guy myself but took a different approach with ours.

I like the cutter rig for its offshore storm handling and flexibility of sail configurations. I like the solent for the full jib's pointing capability and the reacher's ability to make her "get up and go" in lighter air.

My wife and I decided on solent for the rig flexibility provided by the roller furling (manual in our case) and speed, BUT we added rigging for a temporary cutter stay on which to fly a storm jib. I was delighted to see 439-08 (Journey) took this same approach, and I got to sail it and see the set-up, first hand. It employs a temporary storm sail stand, running back stay's to offset it, and the deck and mast hardware to support it. Very much a "have your cake and eat it too" solution -- and very practical/usable. In our case, we're getting just the hardware. We'll add the rest later when we're closer to needing it.

If we were planning to be full-time blue water, I'd likely go for the cutter rig and dispense with the gigantic reacher sail. Although... I've been watching this lunatic on youtube who lives to sail in storms. He's on a sloop-rigged Contessa -- Erik Aanderaa. Look him up.

For certain there will be some ocean crossing for us - I'm dying to sail to Ireland, and Greenland, and...<grin>. But I digress. Realistically, 75% of our cruising in the next 15 years will be offshore coastal between Maine and Trinidad. And maybe I can figure out how to balance the 439 like Erik's Contessa and never add the storm sail rigging!

Hello John. Oddly enough, we bracketed you on hull #(s). There’s a bit more to it but the short story is that we’d been #16 but in a subsequent reordering due to changes in production, our delivery date advanced to January -just a tad off of the prime sailing season on Lake Michigan. Thus, we were moved to #18.

As for the choice of the cutter rig, we picked it because it looks cool. Okay, there’s a little more. Cutter vs solent is a tough call. I weighed the advantages and disadvantages of both but it boiled down to which I’d most regret not having. Somewhat ironic is that I’d asked about configuring the rig with a furling code zero, jib and staysail as had been done on late versions of Gozzard’s and Cabo Rico’s when we visited the IP yard last year. The suggestion wasn’t received warmly and I didn’t ask again. The stow-able storm staysail may be a reasonable compromise though it does not appeal to me. We have been sailing a cutter rigged boat and like using the staysail under a variety of conditions. Ours would have gotten more use were it not hanked on and didn’t require going forward to hoist, reef, flake & cover. Apart from reaching and powering the rig to help plow through slop & rollers, the staysail has been useful for short tacking in narrows & past breakwaters. I realize the jib on the solent will do the same and better but I’m not losing too much with the staysail and we’re experienced tacking a genoa through the slot as well. Having a readily deployed staysail should make that task even easier. The two areas the staysail really shines for us are a near fool proof sail set for night or iffy passages and downwind in strong conditions. My wife is not a sailor and I never sleep well underway. On overnight cruises, I deeply reef the main and sail under that and the staysail alone regardless of the forecast -they’re not very reliable on the Great Lakes by my experience. That way, I can sleep better knowing the boat should be controllable until I can get on deck no matter what blows up. Downwind in a bit of a blow is something else I’d very much miss a club footed staysail as i just rig a preventer on the boom with a deeply reefed main and rig a preventer on the staysail club on the opposite side and a Dutch-rolling we go. The ability to sail closer to the wind is unquestionably the biggest advantage of the solent rig but it’s something we have and predict we will rarely miss. For whatever reason we, almost exclusively, experience three points of sail: dead on the nose, dead astern or dead calm. Speaking of dead calm (our most frequent point of sail) I’ll definitely round out the sail inventory with at least one asymmetric with a good range of AWA’s. I intend to look into something like Onesail’s IFS as I find that intriguing but something in a sock will serve our purpose as well. Wow, really running off and I could go on. I guess I’ve gotten a little defensive in our preference for the cutter rig!

Ugh. You make a great case for the cutter rig. And I finally got comfortable with my decision! I’ll have to think this through some more. I hadn’t thought about the spinnaker option…

Durangutan: 
Off topic, is that your 349 in your avatar? If so, any regrets having gone with the cutter rig? We’ve opted for the cutter rig but we were definitely not encouraged to do so.

Yessir, Durangutan, that is my 349.  We are quite happy with the cutter rig.  Darrell definitely did try to persuade us to get the solent, but I have an Admiral who would rather go slow and stable, and like you, I prefer to set up for overnight runs anticipating surprise squalls.  (We live & sail in FL, so that's fairly routine.) 

There are days where I would like to have a larger, lighter-weight assym headsail, and our longer-term plans include getting something that we can tack on as-needed like the Doyle UPS.

[email protected] post=7250 wrote: Ugh. You make a great case for the cutter rig. And I finally got comfortable with my decision! I’ll have to think this through some more. I hadn’t thought about the spinnaker option…

Please don’t reconsider anything on my account. I think I’ve thought our needs through pretty thoroughly but you know yours best. If you do make a change, for God’s sake don’t tell the folks at IP I had anything to do with it as I’m pretty sure they already consider me a PIA! 

Bill W

zenGator post=7251 wrote:

Durangutan: 
Off topic, is that your 349 in your avatar? If so, any regrets having gone with the cutter rig? We’ve opted for the cutter rig but we were definitely not encouraged to do so.

Yessir, Durangutan, that is my 349.  We are quite happy with the cutter rig.  Darrell definitely did try to persuade us to get the solent, but I have an Admiral who would rather go slow and stable, and like you, I prefer to set up for overnight runs anticipating surprise squalls.  (We live & sail in FL, so that's fairly routine.) 

There are days where I would like to have a larger, lighter-weight assym headsail, and our longer-term plans include getting something that we can tack on as-needed like the Doyle UPS.

Thank you, ZenGator. We experienced the same persuasion at the yard and I think I also had to satisfy the IP guru at Quantum Sails that I’d adequately thought the matter through. Not that there are many, we asked every IP owner we encountered on Lake Michigan last year whether they’d opt for a solent rig over the cutter if they could do it over again and none would. It’s a bit subjective but it did bolster my obstinance. The light air sail is something I can’t imagine being without and we’ll definitely try to have one ready when the boat arrives. Our old one was in an ATN sock with a trigger shackle at the tack and, except for having to go forward to set & snuff, it worked very well and was easy to handle short handed. Thanks again!

Bill W

Y'know, Bill, over the past couple years of second-guessing (because that's just what I do) my choice, I finally came to the realization/conclusion that the "solent" rig just isn't what I think of as a solent rig.

In my mind, a solent has a moveable inner forestay (nope, not that), set a short bit aft of the jib (check, got that), to which you hank on (nope) a 100% (95% is close enough) working jib.  I would call the IP solent rig a sloop with an assym, but I'm no expert and like many things sail, there's not always a hard and fast definition.  (I recently read someone making a distinction from running:  they were on a "very broad reach".)

But, as you noted in your reply to John, what's right for me might not be right for you.

zenGator post=7254 wrote: Y'know, Bill, over the past couple years of second-guessing (because that's just what I do) my choice, I finally came to the realization/conclusion that the "solent" rig just isn't what I think of as a solent rig.

In my mind, a solent has a moveable inner forestay (nope, not that), set a short bit aft of the jib (check, got that), to which you hank on (nope) a 100% (95% is close enough) working jib.  I would call the IP solent rig a sloop with an assym, but I'm no expert and like many things sail, there's not always a hard and fast definition.  (I recently read someone making a distinction from running:  they were on a "very broad reach".)

But, as you noted in your reply to John, what's right for me might not be right for you.

I agree that definitions can get a little nebulous and, though there certainly are advantages to the solent rig, there doesn’t seem to be a definite consensus there either. Strong wind, light wind, close to the wind, before the wind… huh? It’s all about compromises and there are so many variables. No need to second guess if you’re satisfied.

I forgot to ask, Bill -- how long did you give yourself and how long did it take you to get to the Chesapeake? - John

[email protected] post=7256 wrote: I forgot to ask, Bill -- how long did you give yourself and how long did it take you to get to the Chesapeake? - John

Hello John,

I’m afraid I’m not a very good log keeper and all of our documents are at our other home but, as I recall, I had allowed about four or five weeks. Even for a perfect universe where the fates always smile and the planets permanently align, I had ridiculous notions of actually making it to Lake Ontario or Erie in that time. We didn’t have as far as you to get to NJ as we started in Boca Raton, FL. I arrived a week or ten days early (included in the aforementioned allowance) to prep and provision the boat and then motored up the ICW to the Lake Worth inlet where I met a buddy and then sailed six days & nights to Beaufort, NC. There, my friend flew home, the wife flew in and we spent a couple of days relaxing and waiting for better conditions before we headed for our next planned stop at Atlantic City. We spent another couple of days & nights getting around the Outer Banks in a variety of mostly unfavorable sailing conditions. By the third morning out of Beaufort we were finally sailing briskly by the approaches to the Chesapeake under deeply reefed sails in wet, gloomy and rough conditions. After we watched a destroyer and then a cargo ship cruise in we got to thinking about how soon they’d be enjoying some cold beers and hot wings and about how soggy our potato chips were and wondered how much harm it would do to duck in and spend a night or two. BIG MISTAKE! We did enjoy a couple of nights there as the weather settled and had a nice sail back out of the Chesapeake where we were then totally becalmed for another day -not unusual on that trip. I’m treading in divorce territory to disclose much more but suffice to say that the leisure stop in the Chesapeake irreparably damaged our momentum and we ended up back in VA. We’d have easily made Atlantic City and probably a good measure more toward our destination had we not stopped or, as mentioned before, had I been willing to motor much more than I did. Any time we had left was spent scrambling to arrange unplanned storage and eventual transportation for us and the boat. Sorry for the protracted answer but I hope it helps. You’re going to have a fantastic trip on a brand new boat if you can remember that the worst thing you can bring aboard a sailboat is a schedule!

Bill W

Bill -- Thanks! This is actually super-helpful! I was thinking a week prepping/provisioning, two weeks (about 100 miles per day) for the trip from Tampa to Barnegat Bay in NJ, and another week for buffer time. It sounds like maybe I'm being too ambitious, even with a combination of sail and auxiliary...
- John