IP35 new holding tank and head...ideas

Hi all,

I'm in the process of replacing the original(!) aluminum holding tank on my new-to-me 1989 IP35. I'm also replacing the Jabsco head, and am contemplating solutions. We (family of 3) plan to winter over in the Keys in 2014-2015--high capacity is important so we can minimize trips to the pumpout station. I considered a bladder holding tank in the shallow bilge under the water/fuel tanks, but am not confident enough in bladders to use one for waste. That leaves me with a plastic holding tank, and I am considering the following locations:

(a) behind the back of the port settee (easy access and gravity drain through seacock, but must give up valuable storage space)
(b) in the original location under the port settee forward (must cut out/reinstall the molded settee base to get a larger tank in--have seen photos some posted here of doing just that)
(c) under vee berth (will need to relocate deck pumpout and vent fittings, and I haven't measured there yet to see what will fit)
(d) under the water and fuel tanks (need to remove cabin sole and water tank--yeesh!)

I'm also contemplating various options for the new head: fresh/salt, manual/electric, or even vacu-flush.

I'm not a fan of reinventing the wheel, and I'm sure others have considered these same issues. If you have already gone through this on an IP35, please chime in with your final decision and why you chose that option over others. I'll be at sea (on another boat) for the next couple of weeks so will not be able to reply until late July. Thank you in advance for your opinions.

Hite

Hayden,

I just got back from Rockport, MA--it's wonderful town and I had a great trip, although it was a long motorsail back with 5-10 knots on the nose. I was skippering for a training program with a tight schedule, so we didn't have the luxury of waiting for wind.

Thank you for your reply. I appreciate your input and am giving careful consideration to your thoughts, but am still looking at other options. One of my prime concerns is minimizing trips to the pumpout station while wintering in the Keys (large NDZ) for an extended period--that's why I am interested in the extra capacity; otherwise I would certainly go with a stock replacement. We want to spend a decent amount of time in the Dry Tortugas and don't want our holding tank to be the deciding constraint there or in other destinations that might not have pumpout facilities. While our cruising plans might expand in the future, for now we are only considering coastal cruising for one year on the U.S. East Coast, so we will still be subject to U.S. discharge laws. If we go further afield in the future, I can always switch back to the original configuration.

As for the storage issue, I do have long-distance cruising experience, although not on boats as small as the IP35--so perhaps I am underestimating the storage problem. I appreciate the value of accessible storage, but am willing to make a swap for the deeper storage under the settee, where the factory holding tank was located. I have been very pleased with the volume of storage and ease of access even to deeper storage on the IP, so I think we'll be OK.

I am now leaning heavily toward a rigid plastic tank located behind the port settee. Ronco has a wide selection, and I'm hoping I can find a stock tank in the 30-gallon range that will fit there. I'm faxing measurements to them today. If it's not a perfect fit, it will still leave me a bit of storage around the tank. I like the fact that this location is above the waterline, so I can simply open the seacock to drain--although I might still install a manual diaphragm pump before the seacock for those starboard tacks.

I'm also interested in others' experience with marine heads that supposedly minimize volume into the tank with each flush--such as vacu-flush and fresh water macerating units. Fresh water capacity is not such a concern since the current tank is large, and I can always add a bladder in the bilge as you mentioned.

Happy Cruising.

Hite

Hite,

VACU Flush & Macerating Head Experience.

On our 1997 IP 350 we installed a vacu-flush head in 1998. We sailed in the great lakes and always used the pump out. When I installed the head I rigged it so the vacu-pump/vac accumlator could be directed into the holding tank or directly over board. This arrangement worked very well. In a no discharge area, e.g. the great lakes, ICW, a 30 gal holding tank will hold about 90 flushes.

We used this head for coastal cruising and trips to the Bahamas until 2006. We changed it to a Raritan Sea Era because of overhaul cost. I had decided to do a complete overhaul as preventative maintenance and checked spares prices. I had always carried a full set of spares (duck valves, diaphragm, motor, toilet seals, etc) basically everything except a bowl and a tank. The cost was about $700 as I remember. Too steep at the time. I had never had any trouble with it but I just didn't want to travel with in a one head boat without complete spares beyond a bucket.

We now have two Sea Era heads on our IP 40. They can be directed into their own holding tanks or overboard via their dedicated thru hulls. My experience with these macerating heads has been great, on both the 350 and the 40. I use raw water and have two switches on each head. One switch delivers raw water from a small fresh water pump and the other switch runs the macerator/pump motor to empty the head. So we can control the amount of liquid going to the holding tanks or over board. If we are using the holding tanks we minimize the amount of raw water to get maximum flushed from the holing tank, if we are going over board we use lots of water to clear the lines. I use 1" lines to the holding tank and to the thru hull. These are cheaper, easier to bend, and stay cleaner because they require less water to empty them.

While some folks fear the reliability of electric heads, my experience has been great. The Sea Era's are very simple and have fewer parts than manual heads. They will take large amounts of toilet paper and the effluent in the tank has been pre macerated which helps with pump out or overboard dumping with your onboard macerator. The power consumption is low. About 12 amps - They empty in 15 seconds. So if you flush it 12 times a day that's 3 min's of 12 Amps, or about .6 Amp hrs. Also, the spare "raw water" pump for the head doubles as a spare for the house fresh water so you really need one less spare pump.

Hope this helps - free advice is worth what you pay.

George S/V Delicia

George,

Thank you for the info. Vacu-flush is moving down in my rankings. I am still undecided on an electric fresh water macerator or manual head. Your insight on the simplicity, reliability, and energy consumption of the Sea Era heads is helpful.

Hite

After researching the options, hemming and hawing, and using a bucket on a 4-day trip to try out the concept, I have decided to install a composting head. This seems to be the ultimate in simplicity, reliability, and expandable capacity for the winter in the keys. I plan to install it this weekend if time allows (busy weekend). If anyone is interested in seeing the installation or hearing feedback after we use it for a while, I'll be happy to oblige. We'll also be at the SSCA Gam at Camp Letts in a few weeks. I hope to see some of you there (I know Moose Tracks will be there--anyone else?)

Hite,

These heads look like a great idea, once you get beyond the yuck! factor. We have known a few people who have them and seem to sing their praises.

There is a couple who live aboard a house boat in Vero Beach how have one and have been using it for about three years. I can't remember their names, but some one on the net may. They have had very good luck with theirs. They talked at length with us about the head and its operation. I can't remember the brand name. But he said that one brand is superior to a another brand so you might ask around.

They are very simple really and you get rid of a lot of problems with pumps, valves and thru hulls.

Please report back to us....


Thanks

George, Delicia

The yuck! factor never really got me--I spent a lot of time backpacking in my younger years and have seen and done worse. Fortunately, my wife is of the same mindset. Plus, using the bucket for a few days will make just about anything look better.

We went with the C-Head after a lot of online research and talking with the sales folks for the major three brands. Customer support and overall height of the seat were the two factors that won us over. The others were just too tall, although their fit & finish are more polished. The C-Head also sounded easier to empty, although it must be emptied more frequently. It's hard to judge that without actually seeing one in Annapolis, though. I'll let you know how we like it after we use it for a while.

Interested in hearing how your C-head is working out. We need to re-do our holding tank and plumbing on our new to us 1995 37 and am seriously considering this route.

We liked the head and would get another one under the same circumstances.
Benefits: simple, easy to install, easy to empty, no stink when used properly, excellent customer support.
Drawbacks: some learning curve, esp. for women, small pee bottle (had to empty frequently), intimidating to some guests.
We sold the boat and downsized to a daysailer last year. Good luck!

We just ordered a C-head for our Ip35. We chose the one with aft angle to allow it to fit nicely against hull slope. Will have to raise the pedestal a few inches probably. I am using 4x4 oak sealed in expoxy to make the support, then cover them with 1/2 inch starboard for a new base. Also a bit of trim in the front. One thing Sandy from C-head points out is that if you keep the contents quite dry by using a mix of wood chips and ceder cat sand (which is really just wood), then no vent is even needed. We have had composting heads before and they really work very well on boats. One thing I am having to do as well is to remove the water supply hose for the old head. As I followed it back to the seacock, it joins a T-Bronze fitting which shares the inlet for cooling water to engine. My plan is to remove and replace the T-fitting and use just a 90 deg Perko hose adapter since I no longer will need to supply water to the head. Its called ADAPTER PIPE/HOSE 3/4" Bronze 90D Part PERKO 0063DP5PLB and can be found at Walmart or online at Amazon incase anyone needs it.