Purchasing an IP questions

Hopefully I'm posting this in the correct location if not please forgive me.

I am approx 1 year out if things go as planned on purchasing an IP either 38 or 380 and have some questions if someone could help but first I guess I'll give some info about myself that might help to understand my situation and plans.

I lived in KY on lake Cumberland around 20 years ago it's a large mountain lake 1400 miles of coast line but again it's in the mountains.   I was quite literally the only person dumb enough to purchase and sail a sailboat on the lake.   I bought a Catalina 22 not big not small easy to one hand good enough for camping basically all the same rigging as a larger boat just compacted.   Anyway learned quite a bit on the lake sailing daily for around 10 years would have people tell me I wasn't really sailing that the ocean was so much harder and eventually we moved to Islamorada Florida in the keys as a compromise with my wife I wanted to live on a boat she liked dirt the small island was in the middle.   Found sailing in the ocean far easier due to predictable steady winds.   Winds in the mountains can go from 5 to 75 from the north to from the south in 3 seconds wind the winds come around a mountain had quite a few knock downs in the mountains and found sailing in the predictable although larger waves and swells were new the sailing itself much easier.   

Anyway after a few years we moved to Cape Coral Florida on the gulf side of things and I gave up my Catalina due to depth of the Callusahattchee being so shallow knew I'd never take the boat out to the gulf to sail so bought a power boat.   Boring boring boring.   Sold that bought a wind rider 17 trimaran to play on pretty fun insane fast but not so fun for my wife and sailing alone is no fun in my book so thats gone now.

That brings me to the here and now.   I was in love with the Island Packet before and still am and plan to purchase within the next year if I can find the right boat at the right price no hurries I have my own dock here so thats not an issue and it's sailboat access with 2 bridges one that is 70' no issue there and one that is listed at 55' so that one I have to watch for and purchase accordingly.

I'm wanting shoal draft but honestly most all the IP's fit that category for sailing the Bahamas and the rest of the Caribbean....Plan on making the purchase getting to know and work on the boat in shake downs and additions over a 2 year period then heading out wife has agreed are retired or close to it for her so we are ready.    I figure 2 years getting to know the boat a year of sailing to the Bahamas and that should have us ready to go.   

Im handy as in I know how to rebuild and engine and any engine that I havent worked on I can figure out given a little time.    I'm pretty good with fiberglass work,  I've spent time as a welder fabricator and a cabinet maker, my mother was a seamstress so that got handed down a bit as well along with a father that was a long haul truck driver and diesel mechanic along with us being small farmers and all that goes with that add to that I was an electronic warfare systems technician in the military so electrical work comes pretty naturally to me.    Anyway am by no means bragging there are those that know much more than me call me a jack of all trades but a master of none, regardless getting a boat that is in good solid condition but might need some help doesn't bother me a bit allows me to get to know every nook and cranny is the way I see it.

ALL THAT SO I CAN ASK THIS.   lol  

Things that I figure I cant do much about or dont want to if I can help it.
Mast
decks
bad jell coat
missing teak or bad rot ect

so one of the things that I am finding on nearly 3/4 of the boats Im finding is the furling mainsail.   to be honest I cant say I'm a fan I've never owned one never been on a boat with one but the scare the crap out of me a bit just in it getting jammed in bad weather.    One of the reasons I'm wanting the IP isn't for speed obviously but for the steady solid ride solid construction and so on.  I'm starting with a wife that is willing but is hesitant probably going back to times we were knocked down or rounded up on the mountain lake from straight line winds didn't help the situation at all.   
I know that there are those that are gonna say they are no problem they love them and those that will hate them but is there any consensus at all?   and if say I find the perfect boat and the only issue is the furling mainsail for me is it an impossible switch to slides?   Is that a full mast change out?   Something I cant imagine the cost on.   

I honestly figure if I can find a boat with an aged engine that might not be a bad thing lets me negotiate and I can for 10 to 15 drop a new diesel in it's place and be worry free at least in that for a few years outside obvious maintenance.    Sorry that wasn't really a question just typing out loud I guess.

Not looking for bad mouthing on the IP I'm sold on the boat but what are issues you guys have experienced that might be hidden besides a squishy rot deck or rot around the mast that I should really be looking for that are serious or expensive things to fix that might be unique to the boat?   Hopefully with as much experience here I might get some inside scoop.

Above I said an IP 38 or 380 mainly cause I like the layout.  Personally I prefer the 380 layout and since the intention is to spend a few years living aboard with maybe short breaks here and there comfort is as important as just about anything if your not comfortable your not happy in my opinion.   I haven't put much thought into anything larger due to that 55' bridge and honestly don't want to push things to close the 38 is going to be close enough there isn't allot of tide but if I can time winds correctly they do much more than tide and it drops around 3' if it's blowing out the mouth.

I haven't gotten as far as shopping for insurance yet since the boats are generally at or above the 20 year mark is getting insurance an issue for anyone?   Have cash for most of the boat plan on getting a small equity loan for the remainder which isn't an issue so I don't have to worry about boat loan and the age there.

I am sure I'm the same as most I've read a stack of books done just about everything I can think of before pulling the trigger if I found a boat tomorrow that was just right I'd buy it but again I'm in no giant rush have never gotten a good deal while in a rush.   I am nervous about handling a larger boat the first couple times it's quite obvious that it's larger than the Catalina 22 I had for a number of years and I realize that handling around the dock and such is going to be a challenge but outside buying or renting a 28' boat or a 30' it is what it is and I'm working with what I have to get to where I want to be if that makes sense.   I'm no dummy as long as nothing horrific happens first time out it's just a learning process like anything else nobody was born with the tiller of a boat in there hand.  (ok maybe a few but not many)

I've thought about delivery as well if I find a boat in another location and hiring the boat delivered seems the sensible choice instead of trial by fire new boat learning new boat and navigating new waters.   I've wondered if it would be an usual request of the previous owner to take me out for a couple quick lessons?   Anyone ever done that?   I've done and am currently doing it on my last boat and did the same with the Catalina was kind of nice knowing the person that was buying the boat was going to take care of the Catalina I put a thousand or more hours into that boat rebuilding it hated to see someone go trash it out not knowing what they were doing and wondered if I am unique there or anyone ever sold or bought there boat and did the same?

Outside the small word salad book I wrote above I realize there are 10k things I haven't thought of things that I don't know what I don't know even so if anyone can give any suggestions I would greatly appreciate it.   Again I've read every book I can get my hands on over the years so it would be mainly specific stuff I guess?    Obviously I've never dealt with Dingy's or davits/ watermakers/ I have had chart plotters and autopilot/ no frig or freezer/ no toilet (that I kept dumped that quick like on the small boat)    sail blowouts and that I'm overly familiar with along with roller genoas and such but the roller main is a beast looking of a thing and the problems i see on here don't seem to add much happiness about them.   Maybe specific years i should avoid if i can help it or years that they did things right?   Not really excited about the center board either I had issues with barnacles on mine up in side that were a bear to get out but not sure how many made had them.   

I did see one for sale in the islands Grenada I believe that threw me had no staysail or cowl vents and thought that was kind of odd dont know if that was an option or they just modified?

Any and all help is appreciated excluding the run away part lol   Hopefully I didn't scare everyone off with the non specific word salad sorry I'm not the best writer.

Thanks again 







 

I'm afraid I can't answer many of your questions specific to the 38/380s, but I did want to let you know that your background, experience, and the considerations you've discussed lead me to believe that you are in great position to do well with whatever IP you acquire.

I'm a little familiar with Kentucky Lake having lived in Louisville for 7 years.  I'm very familiar with the differences between sailing inland vs sailing coastal.  I learned to sail on the St. Johns River which isn't too different from Kentucky Lake (except for the lack of mountains of course), but the shifty winds, long and narrow aspect--that's similar.  The skills you develop there transfer well to the open water, as you've already seen.  And the size and design of the IP is going to address your Admiral's concerns of knockdowns and comfort.

As far as getting advice, help, familiarization from the previous owner:  if they're around and able (i.e., it's not a widow selling her husband's boat) I can't imagine someone not wanting to make sure you have all the info to sail and treat the boat well.  I would think any owner who maintains the boat in a way you'd want to buy it would feel that way.  (The converse:  any owner who didn't care to have a handover like that probably didn't keep up the boat very well, such that it's not a boat you'd want.)

I share your concerns about furling mains, but I don't have first-hand experience with them, so I have no basis to validate or dismiss those concerns.

So, I'm probably not really much help other than to say I think you're on the right track and to encourage you to keep on until you're in the islands.

thanks for the words of encouragement very much appreciated.

Only one clarification I "wished" I had learned on Kentucky lake. I learned on Lake Cumberland Kentucky lake is somewhat flat around there. Lake Cumberland is/was considered houseboat capital of the world with 7 manufactures on the lake. Sailboat capital it is not hehe with 300' vertical clifts that are right to the waters edge on much of the lake as it twists threw the valleys most of it is maybe a 150 yards wide with the main body by Wolf Creek Damn 3 largest in the states that part is a couple miles wide but I didn't get that far down on the lake very often.

Anyway none of that has anything to do with anything I really do appreciate the reply it does make me feel better I have to admit I am nervous about handling a 38' boat quite the jump from my small 22' cabin boat still couldn't throw your hand out there to stop it on a dock at 7k lbs it will still break a hand but still barely comparable.

well Appreciate the help and might be a bit but I'll let ya know how it goes.

As to years to avoid just know that older boats, like mine, up until about 1994 (others will know the date, probably on this site somewhere) there are known chainplate problems from lesser grade steel and aluminum tank problems.

If I were buying an IP I would definitely engage Hayden, the moderator of this site who is an IP broker and owner. Well worth every nickel for his knowledge and experience.

Best wishes.

I am the original owner of a 1994 IP35. During my 27+ years of ownership I have found only two design flaws as mentioned by Flyrod: Chainplate issues in older models and aluminum tankage. As many have already done, I replaced my holding tank with a molded plastic one from Duraweld. It was easy on my 35 but might be different on other models. The aluminum fuel tanks should be OK and the water tanks are made from much thicker stock and, so far, mine is OK. The chainplate issue was solved in later years but I do not know when, Hayden will. All 38s will be susceptible to chainplate issues though many will never have a problem. I believe the 380s are fine, but again this needs to be confirmed. If I were buying a used IP, I would stay away from any year before the chainplate fix, in large part because there is really no way to know if there is a problem without tearing he boat apart.

I echo the response of talking to Hayden. He has a wealth of information.
I can't comment much on the "oh boat series" (320, 350, 370, 380, etc) other than to say their layouts are more amenable to living on and lessons of the past were applied.
In 1991 IP switched from Polyester to Vinylester resin for the last few layers of fiberglass on the hull. This reduces the impacts of blistering. In addition, they changed the way they installed the chainplates and instead of mixing 316 SS with 304SS used all 316SS. There also was the lesson learned that 5200 does not stick well to Stainless Steel. I seem to remember that one of the recommended products was GE Silproof for bedding the top end of the chainplates where they exit to the deck.
I have owned a 31, 32 and now 37. Yes chainplates are a concern and for me, a mostly single-hand sailor, I chose to have Mack Yacht Services replace my chainplates as an insurance. From my experience, there is no way to tell if chainplates are compromised. I have a proctologist-like scope that I have used to look at them, but the results are inconclusive. I also have heard of some who chose to do the work themselves. I do not feel I am qualified to tear apart the cabinetry and do the job. Thus it is currently at Mack Yacht Services.
On the topic of tanks, on the newer boats there is less stainless and aluminum used for the tanks - that is a good thing. The big concern I have on the older boats is the potential of having to replace the water and/or fuel tanks under the floor. Under the teak and holly sole is a fiberglass pan that forms part of the structural integrity of the vessel and to get to the tanks you have to cut this, so my concern would be ensuring it is put back in a way that retains the structural integrity. I always filter water before it goes into the fresh water tank in the hopes of staving off the possibility of having to replace the water tank. Do not use any Chlorine product on these tanks. Twice a year, I T-off the hot water tank and insert a hose on the fresh water pump side, then flush the fresh water hoses with a mix of Chloronox, water and food coloring, then flush that with clean water. This way no Chlorine goes into any metal tanks.
My 37 (1997) came with the factory option of an in-mast furled main. I am a traditionalist and preferred the old sail config. I will say that I do like the furling sail and so far have not had problems with this system. A couple of important items to consider here: 1. the furling lift swivel (that raises and furls the main) needs to be in line - on my boat the halyard was pulling this off center and created friction and wear. MYachts took down my mast and serviced the system - while doing so, they re-routed the main halyard so it was in line. 2. the furling mechanism at the base of the mast (just above deck) cannot be serviced or replaced while the mast is on the boat. 3. the boom must be at less than 90 degrees for smooth unfurl/furl. Mine is set at about 85degrees and when furling/unfurling I loosen the boom vang and mainsheet to allow the boom space to rise.
I have sailed the 38 a number of times and it is a rock solid vessel. One thing I would consider is that with each new generation of IP the shape of the hull and keel were changed and improved. These 'underbody' improvements have an impact on up-wind and pointing ability. Additionally, on the "oh boats" the staysail system now includes the Hoyt boom. the value of this system is that the rise/fall of the boom is in a fixed position giving improved shape for the staysail on points of sail. Some of us have made some changes to improve the staysail control. I don't think there is any one 'perfect' solution. Hayden has posted an option he chose and I have posted an option I chose.
Also on the newer boats is the amount of teak. I like the traditional look, but it adds to maintenance. There is less of that on the newer boats and of note, the hand-rail is now stainless steel tubing.
Mac's two cents