Rudder Strap

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9 years 11 months ago #4365 by Ghost
Rudder Strap was created by Ghost
Is there anyone out there that has had difficulty with strap between the keel and the rudder? I have an IP 27 1986. The strap is coming loose from the rudder. Having the boat pulled in a week and don't know what to expect or what the fix might be. Has this happen to anyone? The boat was not grounded, I do sail in 20 to 25 knots of wind on a number of occasions. Boat was bottom painted with no visible signs of damage 2 years ago and is cleaned by a diver every 6 weeks.
Thanks for the help

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9 years 11 months ago #4366 by hayden
Replied by hayden on topic Rudder Strap
Mike:
This is called the WEED SHOE, and the good news this strap is NON STRUCTURAL. It is simply there to keep crap pot and lobster pot lines off the rudder, it really is not needed. So, many of these come loose. The fix is simply remove it, epoxy the holes, and re-screw it onto the keel. The newer IPs have this strap made as a square tube making it thicker, and some even have it with a side bracket welded giving them more places to screw it into the keel. I would just do the best you can to make the existing strap tight, then don't worry about it. It really has ZERO to do with the rudder. Many owners thing this strap helps support the rudder. NOPE, it does now. So don't worry much over this, just look for a way to get the screws tight again and go sailing.
Hayden

Hayden Cochran
IP35-165 Island Spirit
IslandSpirit35.blogspot.com
Rock Hall, MD

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9 years 11 months ago #4368 by Ghost
Replied by Ghost on topic Rudder Strap
Hayden you are as always the man with the plan. Thanks again

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9 years 11 months ago #4369 by Gary Z
Replied by Gary Z on topic Rudder Strap
Thanks Hayden. I have the same problem. Now I know it's easily solved. I plan to replace the strap with a rectangular box strap for strength.

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9 years 11 months ago #4383 by Sailup
Replied by Sailup on topic Rudder Strap
Hayden, is the strap the source of the light banging sound with the rudder cavitation? There is the kit from the factory for the shim on board, but I have not had time to add that to the project list yet, much less gather enough information on what exactly are the mechanics of the problem, and what the procedure is to solve it with the shim kit.

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9 years 11 months ago #4385 by hayden
Replied by hayden on topic Rudder Strap
Todd:
The rudder shim kit is OK, but it is not really a big deal. The banging you are talking about sounds odd. Reach into the helm seat and feel the rudder post, hopefully this is not moving. It has a bearing at the hull and is very solid. This weed shoe strap is simply there to keep ropes and kelp off the rudder, it is NOT STRUCTURAL at all. Heck, you could remove it and sail around the world, no problem. So, if you are hearing a noise, then start feeling the rudder post and see if the bearing may be bad. I have never heard of that being an issue in 25 years of IP sailing.

Hayden

Hayden Cochran
IP35-165 Island Spirit
IslandSpirit35.blogspot.com
Rock Hall, MD

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9 years 11 months ago #4386 by Sailup
Replied by Sailup on topic Rudder Strap
I suppose "banging" was not the word. Let's call it the feeling my 1977 Ford Pickup steering feel I remember from so many years ago. Issue I am having is described in post# 1470 - ipyoa.com/forum/52-bottom-paint-a-prep/1470-rudder-shim-kit

Noticeable only when under power with the prop wash over the rudder. Thought it initially was possibly too much lash in the steering gears from wear, but they are within tolerance. The bearing is good and the shoe was tight when we hauled out for the survey. Prior owner bought the kit, just never installed it. If it will make a difference, will add it to the list on the next haul that is under a very short window as we do not have the luxury down here of being out of the water for any length of time and the cutlass, seacocks and motor mounts are at the top of the list.

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9 years 11 months ago #4387 by jandds
Replied by jandds on topic Rudder Strap
Greetings Sailup,
I am the owner of a 1990 32' IP and I sail a lot. I've had the same type of problem . My rudder assembly has three bearings: One on the heel strap, one at the hull entry and one inside the steering seat base.
The heel strap should have absolutely NO movement at all. Not vertically and not horizontally. Immediately after hauling your boat, try and move the heel strap by tugging on it from the side. If you so much as see a bubble coming out of the area where the heel strap is joined to the keel, have the heel strap reseated. 3M 5200 is what I used however, mixing up an epoxy mesh would be a stronger, and less flexible, adhesive. My heel strap used to move. It doesn't move at all now. Over the course of time, the lateral movement from the loose heel strap allowed the through-hull bearing to act as a fulcrum which caused the top bearing to take on an oval shape. It also allowed the rudder post to move vertically. The banging you hear is probably the rudder moving up and down.Check it while going over some waves.The rudder post is held down, in part by the heel strap.
The top bearing is actually a rudder bearing flange made by Buck-Algonquin in Maryland. I was able to purchase it through Deep Blue Yacht Supply.
The middle bearing, the through hull bearing, is a combination packing box and bearing. If the heel strap allows any type of movement, it will indeed wear on both the packing and the bronze collar bearing itself. In my case, the small amount of movement over time destroyed the nylon washer assembly, the packing material, and the bearing. It also allowed water to enter the boat.
Look at the three load-bearing collars yourself while someone turns the rudder post. The rudder post needs to rotate without any kind of microscopic gaps between the rudder post and the three bearings. Sight the top of the rudder post while moving the wheel back-and-forth. The top of the rudder post should rotate in a perfect circle.
As you know. the rudder is under a T-R-E-M-E-N-D-O-U-S load while under sail. All three bearings need to be acting in concert.

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9 years 11 months ago #4391 by Norm Pierce
Replied by Norm Pierce on topic Rudder Strap
The "skeg, weed shoe, heel strap" on an Island Packet is a non structural element to enable lobster pot, crab pot, mooring lines etc. to slide down the keel and exit behind the rudder with our fouling on the rudder or the propeller. The strap on the 27's & 31's is just that a strap. fastened with lag screws at the keel and rudder. Any noise in the Edson reverse wheel steering system of the older boats has been caused by a loose strap or loose / miss adjusted / worn pinion to rack interface. There are nylon guides that support the rack near the pinion that wear and the pinion bearing has shims under it to facilitate adjustment to bring the rack and pinion teeth closer together and eliminate the play that creates the noise.
There is also a grease fitting in later models inside the seat at the upper bearing mounted on the cockpit sole.
The rest of the fleet (except the SP Cruiser) has a box shaped unit that is fastened at the keel only by 3 to 4 thru bolts. At the rudder there is a hole it its top for the bottom of the rudder shaft to set in. There is no fastener at the rudder. The Rudder is spade mounted and foam filled and will float up against a large Nylon washer between the top of the rudder and the hull. A rudder bearing / stuffing box is mounted inside the hull and an upper bearing is mounted at the cockpit sole under the seat. Due to noise and some vibration felt in the steering wheel due to the pulses of the propeller blades hitting the rudder wether motoring or sailing with the propeller spinning, there was a shim kit made to be inserted into the aft end of the boxed skeg / shoe / strap to stop the shake. Any other arrangement would have been made by or for an owner.
When reading or replying to any forum question we need to realize that there have been Island Packets built for 35 years
and there have been close to 30 different models. Many items and functions are different from year to year and model to model. And, many have had 5 or more owners that each has "customized" to their liking and may not be the same a yours.
Best to All,
Norm Pierce
Island Packet dealer since 1986
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