IP 485 Holding Tank Pickup Tube

Hi all,

We are owners of Calliope, IP 485 Hull 57. We are currently in the Bahamas and since there are no pump out stations here we have been pumping the holding tank overboard. We have noticed that our tank level gage is starting to read higher than normal when we finish with a pump out. We can hear the fluid flowing through the siphon line in the forward cabin when we are pumping and when the noise stops we feel we have pumped the tank out. While our acu-gage system has never worked well on the holding tank we ended our pump out last night at higher level than normal and the pump out seemed very short for our typical pump out. This may just be a gage issue. But this could also be an issue with the holding tank pickup tube being corroded or having a hole in it.

Are there any 485 owners that have had issues with their pickup tube corrording or issues getting a full pumpdown when pumping overboard? Any thoughts on how I might be able to confirm if this is the issue while we are here in the Bahamas?

BTW Bill over at IP ancestory has been great. Quick response with some advice and drawings showing baffle arrangements in the holding tank with some potential issues for us to review. We just learned about his service and would suggest taking a look at it, especially if you are new to IPs.

Thanks in advance

Glenn and Debbie Kenney
S/V Calliope IP 485
Currently in the Southern Sea of Abaco

Hello Glenn & Debbie, i have experienced the same issues on IP 485 #3. Year 2003. I have had no problem with the pickup tube except this mystery. One at a dock side pump out no holding tank liquid could be evacuated. I use water pressure from the docks fresh water hose to force water down the deck pump out hole to the tank. That worked and I have not had that issue for going on 5 years now. Another issue I had with off shore pump out was some kind of blockage in the hose between the masserator pump and the discharge through hull valve. I bypassed this section of old hose with new hose. I went from output of pump directly to the discharge through hull. That solved the problem. I did that after replacing the pump 3 times thinking it was defective pumps causing the problem because the blockage was intermittent. While replacing another piece of the original sanitation hose I discovered the interior lining of that section of hose was separating so I suspect the compromised hose was at fault. I no longer have a vented loop for off shore discharge. I just make sure the seacock is closed when not in use. All that said your boat is not as old as mine so hoses are most likely ok. I have discovered when using the Vacuflush heads the more water I use when flushing the more accurate the gauge is after pump out. The inaccurate gauge for the holding tank on the 485 is normal. You might check that your vent line is clear. Hope all that helps.

I have only used the pump out once, I tend to discharge at sea which is ok in the UK.

My masserator pump failed and was replaced three years ago. I also had a few problems with the Vacuflush blocking, possibly due to being lazy replacing the duck bills. However I was told by Sealand once a week to add some washing up detergent and little vegetable oil to each toilet and flush. I havent had any problems since, and I suspect I get a far better pump out as weill as the guage now behaves itself and all the pumps seems to run better.

I must check my pump pump out again! By the sound of it maybe I should check and replace the hoses as well.

Thanks guys. We are still sorting this. We will be pulling into Green Turtle Cay tomorrow and will have access to a good water source with pressure. So we will try backflushing the pick up tube there.

I think our hoses are okay as we are still getting “fluid” pumping overboard. Just not sure if we are getting the full tank pumped down due to damaged pick up tube .... or perhaps a weak pump.

We will be heading back to the USA soon and can try to assess the actual level in the tank after a pump out.

We also have one of the inline vent filters so I have been a little hesitant to get too aggressive with flushing the holding tank vent and getting water trapped on top of the vent filter. But I have not ruled out clogged vent as a potential issue. When we are doing a pump out I can easily hear the vent sucking noise, but with the macerator it does not seem to pump as aggresivly so not sure I am hear the vent sucking.

Thanks for the suggestions

Glenn

We got tired of the accuguess system and installed a tank tender for all 5 tanks. Now I know the exact level of fluid in each tank. Of note, we are always left with 7 inches of fluid in our holding tank when we pump out (shore pump or macerator). I haven’t cracked it open yet to figure out why...
IP 485 #47

I have not been too impressed with the Accuguess system on my IP485 either. Can you let me know the model you used and tube lengths for the tanks if you still have them? On the fiberglass tanks, where did you put the sensors? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Jacrupi beat me to the questions. Which model and where on the tanks did you install the system. My accugage system is less than helpful. If it was consistently wrong I could live with once I understood how it was seeing the level. But it is just all over the place

Glenn
IP 485 #57

Yes, I would also be very interested to know. How did you get on with the calibration and did you include the diesel tank as well?

What was the price and delivery time as it suggests they are custom made?

Thank you

Hello Glenn,
We are the owners of Island Wanderer IP485 no. 63 2008 we have owned her for 18 months and we are still learning. She has just arrived in St Lucia and we are heading west in January with the World ARC.

We have what sounds like the same issue with our macerator pump out as the one that you describe, it does pump but not enough. We have unblocked the breather and replaced the complete macerator pump.

Please could you let us know how your problem was solved? Was it the pickup tube and if so is it possible to extract the tube for inspection or does the cabin floor get in the way? We would, and will, check this ourselves but we are at home in the UK for Christmas and are starting to fret about the problem as it has now been going on for some time and we are due to set off on 11th January 2020.

Best wishes & Merry Christmas

Alan & Avryl

I can help on this. I own GP2 also a 485. May well be in Antigua late jan.

I was also thinking about the tanks tender. I was not sure it could be installed given accessibility of some of the tanks. Looks like it can! I will have to look at this for boat show purchase next year. Thanks

For us this turned out to be just the tank level system. The one on the holding tank is very inaccurate. But, as said above, it is consistently inaccurate. So when we got back to the USA I bought a gauge for our water fill hose. We pumped the tank down and filled it with water from the pump out opening and I measured how much went in and we watched the gauge as we did this. Then pumped the water out and watched the gauge. We are getting good pump downs. So most all of the water we put in is going out. So the accugague system is just not working right. I replaced all the pieces to that tank except for the tape (I can’t reach all the way down to put new tape on). And it still indicates poorly. But since we calibrated it we can work with when we need to pump out and the empty level is correct

Thanks. We will be over in the Bahamas in January.

thank you ip485, any information on removal &/or inspection of the pickup tube would be most helpful.
Regards
Alan

Sorry for the delay.

Touch wood I havent had this yet, but I did hear from Bill that this has been an issue on at least two 485s. Apparently there is a known problem with the pickup which corrodes and either comes away completely or develops holes. If the level is below the holes then air enters the pipe and of course the suction falls.

Unfortunately, and also apparently, the ony way of removing the plate and gaining access is to cut the sole floor.

I am guessing that would not actually be the end of the world and could be done quite accurately with a multi tool and an access panel effectively set in place.

I have just had the water heater start leaking which came at the same time as installing a hydronic water heater. Fortunatley replacing the water heater is also not the end of the world.

Good luck and hope we can keep in contact and might bump into you.

Fortunately we were able to measure the water that we put into the tank through the garden hose so we know we put in all but about 5 gallons of the tank capacity. We were able to pump that down and refill it to verify that we are able to fill the tank and completely empty it. So, at least for now, our issue likely just the typical issues with the accugage system.

I did have a theory about the holding tank readings. That seems to be the tank most people have the main issue with. The system basically works by measuring the capacitance of the surrounding air, tank, and contents of the tank (that is why there are the two leads on the tank). I think initially the dielectric for “poop” is very different from water and then the inside of the holding tank gets caked with the dried contents and changes the dielectric even more and, for us, the system can only read so high given the limited of the signal. EE was a long time ago and I have not bothered to pull out any old text books to look at numbers. But the other tank levels are consistently inconsistent and will read all the way up and down. The holding is the only one that tops out and wont read up beyond a certain level.

From out measurements with the water we know that when the level gauge tops out we have put in about 40 ish gallons so we still have some room. We start looking for pump out at that point. So we can live with it. I just hate having stuff that is not accurate even it is consistently inaccurate

Thanks for this, the hole in the pickup tube is sounding the most likely and whilst not the "end of the world" the cutting out of the sole floor would not have been my first choice of jobs with just 2 weeks to go to the start of big trip, but if needs must! We have ordered an in line hose flow/measuring meter so will do a few more tests before cutting anything.

Hope your water heater replacement goes well, I considered doing the same as an upgrade to a larger and more modern tank last year but I chickened out when i realized that it required quite a lot of cutting fiberglass under the seat to get the old tank out. Luckily mine doesn't leak, yet.

Thanks for your help, we have considered and worried about the Accugage monitor too and agree with what you say. We will certainly do more tests before we start cutting the floor panel.

The reasons we are thinking that it might not be just a gauge problem are
1. The bar readings go up to full and when we pump out they do go down but only usually by about 3 bars. Then, if we flush a lot of water thru and pump a lot more, we can get the gauge to go down further but not all the way down as it used to.
2. When the tank gauge has gone down just 3 bars it goes back to full very quickly.

No. 1 above could point to a gauge / caked on problem as you describe and admittedly it is hard to understand how the contents could ever go much below a hole in the pickup tube. But No. 2 is worrying as it seems to suggest that the gauge is correct and the tank is not empty.

Would it be worth letting it go down on the gauge as much as possible, then filling with measured water from the deck pump out and seeing how mich it takes. At least it would given you an accurate indication of the tank level?

Hi IP485,

That at is what we did. We verified that we were getting full usage of the tank and and the issue is with the accugage system on the holding tank.