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Re: IP 380 Leaking Holding Tank
9 years 6 months ago - 9 years 6 months ago #4272
by MessingAbout
Replied by MessingAbout on topic IP 380 Leaking Holding Tank
ian and Forum folks tracking the holding tank extract project ----> Done.
Was a one-guy job, taking about 5.5hrs. 3 hrs to do the main cuts, 2 hrs to do the follow-up cuts (discussed below) and about 30 min to wedgie out the holding tank. Pics attached.
Will post a dimension-specific drawing of the cut lines related to fixed points on the sole for others to use.
Dimension of the cut is 22.5" by 33 .75".The cut lines lined up exactly with the inside wooden frame of the holding tank sub compartment.
Pic1 - shows the depth of the cut and near perfect alignment with the bulkheads/timbers. The sole is a composite glued together 1 3/8 thick teak, marine plywood and fiberglass section. Under the sole structure, with a 1/2 air gap, is a 1" x 1.5" wooden subframe that secures the top of the holding tank to the boat frame. The subframe is glued (as Karsten at IP said...with very liberal application of 5200 everywhere) and screwed into the bulkheads (with SS screws) and fore/aft running timbers. The tank has about a 5/8 air gap all the way around from the bulkheads/timbers.
Pic2 - shows the sub-frame that I had to also cut away from the bulkheads and timbers. we had an extra fun time. The "liberal amount of 5200" included filling the air gap between the bulkheads/timers and the sole which added a dozen more "screwed-in like" points that glued the sole to the sub-frame. Lots of fun. Once the subframe was removed, the tank moved about easily in the sub-compartment.
Pic3- I slid a strap down one end of the tank, and worked it under the tank. Used the strap to lift, and the attached suction handle to pull the tank out of the sub-compartment.
Pic4-yes the hole. a little over 1.5" hole in the aluminum tank. Guy next to me is metal guy, and said the aluminum should not have failed like that. Maybe a weld seam, but not a flat surface. Will get with Hayden to see what we should present to IPY to work with Florida Marine Tanks, the manufacturer. Too many of these failures in the same place.
Pic5- subspace cleaned and ready for the new tank that arrives Tuesday next week. Will paint the interior of the sub-compartment with a couple coats of epoxy paint (IPY only painted the section directly under the tank). Will smooth the edges of the cut-out section, and glue 1/8 birch strips to finish the access door frame in the sole and to finish the sides of the sole section I removed so they are framed out to look they same as the other access panels in the sole. Will keep you posted.
Update 14 Oct
Just received the new tank from Wellington plastics, BC Canada and measured all the exterior dimensions, and hole locations. Appears spot-on. Also note the access lid included. The tank as the baffles on each side identical to the original Florida Marine Tanks installed as OEM. Will complete the installation this weekend.
Pic 6 is picture of the unserviceable aluminum tank next to the new poly tank.
Pic 7 is the aft side of the new tank, showing location and extrusion of the fittings for the plumbing.
On a separate note, I contacted the customer service folks at Florida Marine Tanks, Inc, and got forwarded to the VP and GM. A surprise. The OEM tank they provided IPY had a 1-yr manufacture warranty; the warranty specifically excludes any damage caused by corrosion. So. Hmmm. Been scratching my head a bit why this brand was selected. Florida Marine Tanks offered to replace the tank at a reduced price. However, when I spoke with K
arsten at IPY Customer service and in his follow-up emails, Florida Marine Tanks was not one of the three recommended vendors.
Chess and Karen
The Belle of Virginia ... without the smell now.
Was a one-guy job, taking about 5.5hrs. 3 hrs to do the main cuts, 2 hrs to do the follow-up cuts (discussed below) and about 30 min to wedgie out the holding tank. Pics attached.
Will post a dimension-specific drawing of the cut lines related to fixed points on the sole for others to use.
Dimension of the cut is 22.5" by 33 .75".The cut lines lined up exactly with the inside wooden frame of the holding tank sub compartment.
Pic1 - shows the depth of the cut and near perfect alignment with the bulkheads/timbers. The sole is a composite glued together 1 3/8 thick teak, marine plywood and fiberglass section. Under the sole structure, with a 1/2 air gap, is a 1" x 1.5" wooden subframe that secures the top of the holding tank to the boat frame. The subframe is glued (as Karsten at IP said...with very liberal application of 5200 everywhere) and screwed into the bulkheads (with SS screws) and fore/aft running timbers. The tank has about a 5/8 air gap all the way around from the bulkheads/timbers.
Pic2 - shows the sub-frame that I had to also cut away from the bulkheads and timbers. we had an extra fun time. The "liberal amount of 5200" included filling the air gap between the bulkheads/timers and the sole which added a dozen more "screwed-in like" points that glued the sole to the sub-frame. Lots of fun. Once the subframe was removed, the tank moved about easily in the sub-compartment.
Pic3- I slid a strap down one end of the tank, and worked it under the tank. Used the strap to lift, and the attached suction handle to pull the tank out of the sub-compartment.
Pic4-yes the hole. a little over 1.5" hole in the aluminum tank. Guy next to me is metal guy, and said the aluminum should not have failed like that. Maybe a weld seam, but not a flat surface. Will get with Hayden to see what we should present to IPY to work with Florida Marine Tanks, the manufacturer. Too many of these failures in the same place.
Pic5- subspace cleaned and ready for the new tank that arrives Tuesday next week. Will paint the interior of the sub-compartment with a couple coats of epoxy paint (IPY only painted the section directly under the tank). Will smooth the edges of the cut-out section, and glue 1/8 birch strips to finish the access door frame in the sole and to finish the sides of the sole section I removed so they are framed out to look they same as the other access panels in the sole. Will keep you posted.
Update 14 Oct
Just received the new tank from Wellington plastics, BC Canada and measured all the exterior dimensions, and hole locations. Appears spot-on. Also note the access lid included. The tank as the baffles on each side identical to the original Florida Marine Tanks installed as OEM. Will complete the installation this weekend.
Pic 6 is picture of the unserviceable aluminum tank next to the new poly tank.
Pic 7 is the aft side of the new tank, showing location and extrusion of the fittings for the plumbing.
On a separate note, I contacted the customer service folks at Florida Marine Tanks, Inc, and got forwarded to the VP and GM. A surprise. The OEM tank they provided IPY had a 1-yr manufacture warranty; the warranty specifically excludes any damage caused by corrosion. So. Hmmm. Been scratching my head a bit why this brand was selected. Florida Marine Tanks offered to replace the tank at a reduced price. However, when I spoke with K
arsten at IPY Customer service and in his follow-up emails, Florida Marine Tanks was not one of the three recommended vendors.
Chess and Karen
The Belle of Virginia ... without the smell now.
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9 years 4 months ago - 9 years 3 months ago #4390
by MessingAbout
Replied by MessingAbout on topic IP 380 Leaking Holding Tank
Apologize for the delayed response.
Tank is in and all the plumbing connected. The plumbing installation was some fun (pic attached). The access ports designed by wellington (POC there is Stacey) were very close to the OEM. I used a Fein saw to enlarge the holes about 1". This added some wiggle room for potential expansion/vibration.
attachment=841]connections.jpg[/attachment]
I used 2 pieces of 4inch long 1 1/2 inch schedule 80 PVC for the sewage in/out lines. Wellington did a great job on tapping and cleaning the tank threads.
Need to remove all the barb fittings from the ball valves before installation. Good time to really clean and service the valves. Take a pic of the connections before you disconnect as a guide for installation (top ball valve is actually upside down) and label the ball valves and instruction plates before removal.
I coated the threads on the 4 inch 1 1/2 extensions with a viscous pipe paste (does not harden and crack) and screwed them into the ball valve (without barbs) first, and then screwed the assembly into the tank. The valve will not rotate with the barbs inserted. Screw in until hand tight, then rotate either the connector pipe or ball value to get the required orientation. Coat the threads on the hose barbs and screw them by hand into the ball valves to get the required orientation. Put hand soap on the barbs and inside of the flexible pipes and reconnect the hoses.
On the access panel top. The access cover they provided had a handle that protruded about 1 1/4 inch above the top level of the tank. That was about 3/8 of an inch to high to fit under the sole without routing a thin slot into the bottom on sole cover. I was not going to mess with the fiberglass base under the teak sole, so I had Stacy build me a access panel cover that had the turn slot recessed into the top vs protruding (pic attached). Works fine.
On a separate note, I contacted the folks (Florida Marine) that made the original aluminum tanks and asked for their price to replace the tank. They quoted $400. I did not follow up since I had already been working with Stacy...so you may want to get with Florida Marine for another quote. They have the specs for sure.
we're starting on framing the "new" team access panel to look exactly like the original panels that are OEM elsewhere in the boat...a Christmas project
OK...installation fully complete. works like a champ and would never know about all the construction completed.
Attached is a cross section pic of the teak floor, plywood substructure and the fiberglass base. Some thick stuff that you need to prepare for.
Also attached is pic of the lift-out sole panel and a top view of the framed in holding tank.
Total investment...just around $800 for the tank, saw blades, screws, and poly. Hours...close to 30 man hours.
Chess
Completed the framing, sanding, and staining of the new access panel and fore-berth sole last weekend. Looks great and fits snuggly. Pic attached. Considering the Factory offered to replace the holding tank at $10K, we completed this in less than 1/10 the price. If anyone needs copy of the plans or best practices we learned, please drop us a note.
Chess and Karen
IP 380-88
Chess and Karen
Tank is in and all the plumbing connected. The plumbing installation was some fun (pic attached). The access ports designed by wellington (POC there is Stacey) were very close to the OEM. I used a Fein saw to enlarge the holes about 1". This added some wiggle room for potential expansion/vibration.
attachment=841]connections.jpg[/attachment]
I used 2 pieces of 4inch long 1 1/2 inch schedule 80 PVC for the sewage in/out lines. Wellington did a great job on tapping and cleaning the tank threads.
Need to remove all the barb fittings from the ball valves before installation. Good time to really clean and service the valves. Take a pic of the connections before you disconnect as a guide for installation (top ball valve is actually upside down) and label the ball valves and instruction plates before removal.
I coated the threads on the 4 inch 1 1/2 extensions with a viscous pipe paste (does not harden and crack) and screwed them into the ball valve (without barbs) first, and then screwed the assembly into the tank. The valve will not rotate with the barbs inserted. Screw in until hand tight, then rotate either the connector pipe or ball value to get the required orientation. Coat the threads on the hose barbs and screw them by hand into the ball valves to get the required orientation. Put hand soap on the barbs and inside of the flexible pipes and reconnect the hoses.
On the access panel top. The access cover they provided had a handle that protruded about 1 1/4 inch above the top level of the tank. That was about 3/8 of an inch to high to fit under the sole without routing a thin slot into the bottom on sole cover. I was not going to mess with the fiberglass base under the teak sole, so I had Stacy build me a access panel cover that had the turn slot recessed into the top vs protruding (pic attached). Works fine.
On a separate note, I contacted the folks (Florida Marine) that made the original aluminum tanks and asked for their price to replace the tank. They quoted $400. I did not follow up since I had already been working with Stacy...so you may want to get with Florida Marine for another quote. They have the specs for sure.
we're starting on framing the "new" team access panel to look exactly like the original panels that are OEM elsewhere in the boat...a Christmas project
OK...installation fully complete. works like a champ and would never know about all the construction completed.
Attached is a cross section pic of the teak floor, plywood substructure and the fiberglass base. Some thick stuff that you need to prepare for.
Also attached is pic of the lift-out sole panel and a top view of the framed in holding tank.
Total investment...just around $800 for the tank, saw blades, screws, and poly. Hours...close to 30 man hours.
Chess
Completed the framing, sanding, and staining of the new access panel and fore-berth sole last weekend. Looks great and fits snuggly. Pic attached. Considering the Factory offered to replace the holding tank at $10K, we completed this in less than 1/10 the price. If anyone needs copy of the plans or best practices we learned, please drop us a note.
Chess and Karen
IP 380-88
Chess and Karen
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