Re: IP 380 Leaking Holding Tank

I received a cost estimate of about $9K for IPY to replace the holding tank, install new hoses and add a tank monitor system on my I-380, however, this would also require the boat to be trucked to the factory at an additional cost of about $5K. Snead Island Boat Works, in the St. Petersburg area, is currently replacing the holding tank on an IP-380, using a fiberglass tank fabricated by IPY, for about $10K. Since you can sail into the Snead island boat yard there is no additional boat transport cost, but requires about a month notice for the work. Bill Bolin, at IPY, was kind enough to send me the line diagram of the tanks in my IP-380 (attached). I'm currently exploring three other, less expensive options: (1) work with a local marine carpenter and plumber to install a plastic tank; (2) install a bladder tank w/o removing the floor; and (3) cutting into the existing tank through the area around the existing plumbing, cleaning the tank and sealing it with an epoxy designed for fuel tanks. A drawback of using a bladder tank is that the Nauta and Vetus flexible tanks listed don't fit the IP-380 24x48 inch holding tank footprint, resulting in a loss of capacity, e.g., the Nauta 37 gallon tank is 27 x46 inches. I plan on cutting into the tank next weekend and exploring approaches to clean the tank to insure that an epoxy sealant would work. Any information or suggestions on the above would be appreciated.

Most promising, modest cost approach is a custom bladder tank to optimize existing space and current input, pump out and vent connections - see discussion below.

The Nautica 37 looks like a perfect fit. It will install flat like an envelope, albeit curled up on each side 1 1/2 inches. It sounds like there is enough room for it to expand to it's 37 gal capacity. Give some thought to the attachment. I believe there are gromets at the corners. Make surety tank can expand upward. If it is contained in the compartment, you may not need to attach, as it has nowhere to go. BTW, I'm heading into my 8th season with the same bladder tank. Vic

VicC and others, Thanks for the input. I plan on moving forward with the bladder tank. As always, the IPYOA is a great source of information.

I always heard that bladder tanks tend to transmit odors more readily than
Other rigid tanks.

We're another metric to add to the leaking IP 380 aluminum holding tank. Forward seam failed this past week, with the "stuff" leaking into the bilge while we were underway on the Chesapeake Bay.

Karsten at IPY responded within hours of our note of the holding tank failure with detailed IPY drawings of the tank and surrounding timbers. He confirmed other comments here at the IPYOA that IPY will do the replacement for around $10K. It's a long run from the Chesapeake Bay to southern Florida. With the fall our prime cruising season, we have about a month to get the holding tank fix completed. Am working with Karsten on their glue and the holding tank support structure details so we can get the repair underway here in Virginia.

We are looking for prior IP 380 owners "jimandjanski" who detailed their holding tank replacement on www.ipphotos.com. Any assistance appreciated.

'Antares' (IP-380-89) is currently on-the-hard at Peakes Boat Yard in Trinidad getting the holding tank replaced by Craftline Woodworking. Craftline did this same job to another IP-380 who we contacted and were quite happy with the work Craftline did. The job on 'Antares' is in progress right now. We will not see the completed project until February. Attached are some pictures Narace Mahadeo sent me and the text of our quotation.

"To cut flooring in forward cabin and remove existing holding tank and make new fiberglass holding tank and to replace flooring and to strip-sand cabin sole throughout vessel and apply 8 coats of epiphane varnish" - $5800 USD.

Good Luck

Joe

Tuamotu IPY380-098 built in 2001 has arrived at that point in her life where the head/holding tank hoses need to be changed. The odor can no longer be ignored.
I retired last year and we are starting to take longer trips than weekends and the odd vacation. Its interesting that which can be ignored on a weekend trip cannot be ignored when on the boat for three months. We just completed a Vancouver Island Circumnavigation.
I plan to do the labor my self and with all the discussion regarding IP holding tanks was hoping someone would have the individual hose lengths. I contacted IP and Karsten provided the 420 lengths which has two heads. There apparently was a flood down there in Florida and some of the older boat records were lost.
The holding tank is not leaking at this time but a little paranoia is setting in. If I can fit in the project this winter I will change it out at the same time.
I could pull out the hoses then purchase the hose but would like to have all parts on board before I start cutting.
Thank you in advance
Ian Meikle
Tuamotu IPY-380-098
Seattle WA

Ian...we are in the throes of replacing the 40-gal holding tank and sanitary hoses on our IP 380-88, The Belle of Virginia. We contacted several potential holding tank providers.

Stacy Evans at Wellington Plastics (This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. 604.795.5106 in BC Canada) has the mold and has made several 3/8 poly holding tanks for the IP 380 and other IPs. Cost is $700 and $100 for shipping, about a week to build and ship.

We also poke with Gareth at DuraWeld (This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it., 561-586-0180 in Lake Worth, FL). Their price is $695, and 4-6 week build to ship time. They've provided many IP poly holding tanks.

Both the Dura-weld and the Wellington plastics tanks are 3/8" poly with a 3/8" protrusion on the tank face to hold the FNPT fitted access points, in the exact position detailed in the IP holding tank drawings. The tanks have baffles too.

Lastly, we spoke with Rich at Ronco PLastics (This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.). They have not made many IP holding tanks.

We start the sole surgery this weekend, opening the sole to remove the holding tank. Karen and I are doing all the work ourselves. Have done enough fiberglassing, hardwood floor replacement, and cabinetry work that we're well underway.

ON the hoses. Many of the new sanitary hoses are a bit (up to 1/8") wider in outside diameter than the original hoses, so it may not be a simple pull out the old and replace with a new hose...Time to use the dremel tool grinding head.

Chess and Karen
The Belle of Virginia
thebelleofvirginia.blogspot.com/

There is a solution for under $900. Anyone familiar with the Island packet 31 knows that it's waste holding capacity is completely inadequate for more than a weekend. Since we live aboard full-time I installed a nature's head composting toilet three years ago. Having live with it this long I have worked out the small kinks and have come up with a waste handling system that is easy, comfortable, and very efficient with no odor. And no maintenance issues. Dealing with a composting head is very akin to dealing with a home aquarium. You occasionally remove a little bit of compost, add a little fresh peat moss, stir often, maintain the proper moisture level and that's all there is to it. I usually go to months without having to mess with the compost at all. Then it's simply a matter of removing about a quart of the old compost and adding some fresh peat moss. The urine goes into a separate tank built into the head. And it gets poured out daily. If anyone decides to go that route then feel free to contact me for all the little tips and tricks to make the composter work at Peak efficiency

Chess you are a few weeks ahead of me with this project. Like all those following your project with interest I am interested to find out how "long" each of the hoses are. How you manage the sole of the forward cabin. I see several different outcomes for this part of the project a) break it all out and replace with new and deal with the color matching issue. be very fortunate and get the floor up all in one piece and re-use. Very low %of success with this one. c)cut a hole in the sole the exact shape of the top of the tank and make a lift up access hatch for the future.
A couple of adds for my project are an inspection hatch in the top of the tank for cleaning, this means a corresponding hatch in the sole. Increase the size of the vent plus add a second vent both with odor filters on them. Tank monitor really tired of guessing what the level actually is. Lastly looking into a manual waste tank pump. In the Puget Sound it is no discharge in fact a lot of marinas install seals on the valves or check that the owner has sealed them. During our Vancouver Island circumnavigation there was no where to pump out so in inlets we used the holding tank and discharged when over five miles offshore (the requirement is three) I don't know why I was so concerned Victoria on the south end of the island pumps the effluent for an entire city 40,000gallons a day into the Straights of Juan de Fuca. The macerator pump failed one of four in thirteen years. Until this trip Around the island I had no need to use the macerator because we used pump out stations although I tested it every couple of years with a tank of fresh water. Regularly I found they had failed. A manual pump has now become an item to research.
Thank you for the very helpful contact info. Good luck with a very labor intensive project
thetyee.ca/News/2015/01/26/Victoria-Raw-Sewage-Dumping/


Ian Meikle
Tuamotu IPY-380-098
Seattle, WA

We just completed instillation of the holding tank on our IP-380 (#48; 2000). We considered trying to seal the existing tank, using a bladder tank and replacement with a custom fiberglass tank from IP or a polypropylene tank from a local vendor. IP furnished the drawings for the tank location and tank dimensions, which I can supply if wanted. Quotes from a local boat works was $9-10,000, using a custom tank from IP and 3-4 weeks lead time. IP quoted about $10,000, plus $5,000 to pull the boat and truck to the factory. We ended up using a local marine plumber and carpenter, and had Tropical Plastics (Clearwater, FL; tel 727-573-1772) make a polypropylene tank. I sent them the tank drawing furnished by IP, and also took over the old tank to aid in fabrication. We had the tank made one inch shorter and less wide to ease instillation. Costs were: 1) poly tank $1,016.50; 2) plumbing labor $585; and custom carpentry $2,932 for a total of about $4,540. We used the existing flooring, added an access hole in the tank, and now have easy access to the new tank. See attached photos, of the top on the new tank, floor access to the new tank and of the extensive corrosion of the old tank.

Photos

Another advantage of our new polypropylene holding tank is that we can easily monitor waste level by shining a light from the top of the tank and viewing the fluid level through a small cutout in the side of the bulkhead - see photo (upside down)

Some great info...and timely too! The sole surgery is about to roll. The measure 3 times, and cut once prep is complete. The plan to was to complete the cuts this weekend, but the 20-25kt pounding we had with this nor'easter in the Norfolk area shifted the work back a week. Attached are a couple of pics as we plan to record the process, provide a detailed cut line template, and stepwise list the installation for others that may follow.

A couple of points.

1. We worked through the grounding strap hole on the aft side of the holding tank sub compartment with a measuring tape to confirm the actual holding tank sub compartment interior bulkhead and side timber distances. Documents from the factory are spot-on.
2. The composite depth of the teak sole and supporting fiberglass floor is 1 3/8". Easy cut for the Fein saw with a 1 3/8" blade.
3. The teak/holly sole strips, while parallel with each other, are not perpendicular to the base of the forward berth or threshold strips for the forward berth door (attached pic shows the off set with the square butted on the aft side of the berth base) Off just a couple of degrees, so trust your measurements and use the sole strips as a general guide.

Will keep the forum posted.

Chess and Karen

Nice job Chess & Karen the communication is appreciated.
Ian

Ian and others...the sole is opened and away we go.

Stacy Evans, President of Wellington Plastics Inc. (604.795.5106, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.) has proven to be the most responsive and knowledgeable go-to guy on the replacement IP holding tank (will provide the final confirmation when I see the product next week). Anyhow, they are molding in an 8" lid on the top of the tank. It protrudes aprox 1" above the tank surface. The tank will be a I:I replacement in size and shape as the 40 gal aluminum one that's coming out. Total cost for the poly tank with the access lid is $740 (less shipping...looks to be $100)

Till post the detailed cut template in a couple of days.

The FEIN saw did a great job. Needed two types of blades, a 1 1/2" plunge cut and a 1 1/2" lateral cut. Got the titanium tipped ones at Northern Tools for $15. The FEIN cuts a lot of "fine" sawdust, so keep the vacuum closeby. I also attached a suction handle to the cut out...to relieve the pressure on the cut-out area.

Will keep you posted. Should have the area cleaned up and ready for the new tank this weekend.

Chess and Karen

I recommend a good book called "Get rid of boat doors" You can get if at Amazon.com and it is not expensive.
The author discusses the various options including the bladder tanks. It is her opinion that they do not last
long before odor problems develop. Her recommendation is a polyurethane tank that is a minimum of 3/8 inch
thick which will contain odors. Metals are susceptible to corrosion due to the action of ammonia in urine on metal.
Most of them fail in about 5 years.

Hi again,
Auto correct on my computer made the name of the book inaccurate.
the title is "Get Rid of Boat Odors"

Maggie

Ian...no rest for the weary.

Submitted the tech specs for the 380 holding tank to Stacy at Wellington Plastics on Monday; they completed the build in 3/8 poly with the 8" access port on the top yesterday (Thursday), and are shipping today (Friday). Will post pics of the product, and assessment of the access point locations/tapping when it arrives...due here from BC in 6 days.

Hurricane JOAQUINE is making a real mess of things here in Norfolk. Massive tidal, wind, and rain surges. Lots of fun. Will keep the forum posted as we get the holding tank and lines replaced.

Chess and karen